Made By Alpaca People For Alpaca People
Survey about Breeder Support - Why are there strings attacted.
I would like to conduct a survey about alpaca breeder support, or the lack there of.
In the part of the country where I live there are no camelid vets at all.
There are a couple of horse vets that are willing to try, but you will be driving over an hour to get there and there is no emergency care to
speak of, except to put an animal down.
So I was very disappointed to find one attitude out there that was more common than I would have ever thought. One that I seriously can not understand.
That is the attitude that if you did not buy an alpaca from them they
are not interested in really helping you out.
I actually had one breeder tell me to call whomever I bought my alpacas from and ask
them for advise. That was not much help because I bought my alpacas from very far
away and a entirely different environment. And treatment is modified by environment in many cases.
I don't think that this is a healthy attitude for alpaca breeders to have. It is very important to always have new bloodlines brought in to local breeding pools. It seems very short sited to always want the sales to stay local.
There are not enough of us out there to have such a narrow attitude. I think it is a misguided effort that is sells driven. I also think that if knowledgeable breeders really thought this out they would see the error in there thinking.
So needless to say, it drives my crazy when I see breeders that advertise proudly that will offer 100% support to there customers. What about the rest of us? Would it not strengthen the alpaca industry as a whole to 100% support each other.
That being said, I think you can agree that being new to alpacas has been pretty scary to say the least. Even though I am a veterinary tech with over 20 years experience, alpacas
are a new species to me and there really is quite a difference in
treatment and management.
So when I had some medical problems with a couple of my alpacas I called around to some of the breeders looking for
help.
There was one breeder who lives 4 hours away to was very generous with
his time and tried to help me out over the phone to the best of his
ability. But as you all know there is only so much you can do over the
phone. A very important part of diagnosis is being able to see and
touch what you are trying to treat.
As a result of this experience I plan on sharing my knowledge as I gain it, to the best of my ability, with anyone who is in need and NOT JUST MY CUSTOMERS. I feel that in the long run I will reap what I sow.
I also feel that this is why alpaca social is a very important place for breeders to be able to come together and share what they have learned.
Maybe this is a place that can start a different trend offline as well as online. A trend that will strengthen our industry and encourage strong partnerships and relationships.
I would really like to hear what other breeders out there think of this line of thought.
I am interested in both sides of this story, because I really want to understand.
In the part of the country where I live there are no camelid vets at all.
There are a couple of horse vets that are willing to try, but you will be driving over an hour to get there and there is no emergency care to
speak of, except to put an animal down.
So I was very disappointed to find one attitude out there that was more common than I would have ever thought. One that I seriously can not understand.
That is the attitude that if you did not buy an alpaca from them they
are not interested in really helping you out.
I actually had one breeder tell me to call whomever I bought my alpacas from and ask
them for advise. That was not much help because I bought my alpacas from very far
away and a entirely different environment. And treatment is modified by environment in many cases.
I don't think that this is a healthy attitude for alpaca breeders to have. It is very important to always have new bloodlines brought in to local breeding pools. It seems very short sited to always want the sales to stay local.
There are not enough of us out there to have such a narrow attitude. I think it is a misguided effort that is sells driven. I also think that if knowledgeable breeders really thought this out they would see the error in there thinking.
So needless to say, it drives my crazy when I see breeders that advertise proudly that will offer 100% support to there customers. What about the rest of us? Would it not strengthen the alpaca industry as a whole to 100% support each other.
That being said, I think you can agree that being new to alpacas has been pretty scary to say the least. Even though I am a veterinary tech with over 20 years experience, alpacas
are a new species to me and there really is quite a difference in
treatment and management.
So when I had some medical problems with a couple of my alpacas I called around to some of the breeders looking for
help.
There was one breeder who lives 4 hours away to was very generous with
his time and tried to help me out over the phone to the best of his
ability. But as you all know there is only so much you can do over the
phone. A very important part of diagnosis is being able to see and
touch what you are trying to treat.
As a result of this experience I plan on sharing my knowledge as I gain it, to the best of my ability, with anyone who is in need and NOT JUST MY CUSTOMERS. I feel that in the long run I will reap what I sow.
I also feel that this is why alpaca social is a very important place for breeders to be able to come together and share what they have learned.
Maybe this is a place that can start a different trend offline as well as online. A trend that will strengthen our industry and encourage strong partnerships and relationships.
I would really like to hear what other breeders out there think of this line of thought.
I am interested in both sides of this story, because I really want to understand.
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Ian Watt on -
Suzie,
Your sentiments are asmirable and I am sure that you will, indeed, reap benefits far outside the hep you give over time.
It seems to me that you are suffering the same thing many of us have suffered when we first got into alpacas - lack of specialist help, such as vets. when we are pioneers of a new livestock into an established area. Nothing new there but your comments about mentoring apply equally to brining vets into the fold - perhaps a few vet books, sponsorship to the AOBA vet forum, paying for a vet to attend some weekend vet-specific conferences, etc are all tools that help bring attention to your needs - as numbers of alpacas increase, so too will vet interest and commitment.
Ijust attended the annual Calpaca Vet Conference at UC Davis (just outside Sacramento,CA) and we, alo0ng with two other farms, paid for the registration fee, hotel, meals and travel for our vet to attend also - for the third year in a row. We now have a vet fully into alpacas, very, very interested in what other vets are doing and hooked into a vet network that allows our bloke to call up anyone he feels like when confronted with a situation he is not sure about - winners all round for me!!
Have faith, patience and belief in what you are doing and you will succeed!!
Kindest regards
Ian Watt
Morro Bay CA
-
Permalink Reply by Suzie Radtke on -
Thanks for your in site, it is encouraging to hear positive solutions to the challenges I have found in my area.
-
Permalink Reply by Nancy Schell ~ Walnut Hill Farm on -
suzie,
You are 100% correct in your thinking!!! There is still so much to learn with these wonderful animals and we all need to help each other. That is why i love this site!
There are those out there though, who won't help, as you have found out. They are limmiting themselves.
Nancy
-
Permalink Reply by Suzie Radtke on
-
Thanks Nancy for your comments, I wholeheartedly agree with them. Thanks for responding.
-
Permalink Reply by Lisa on -
Hi Suzie-
I purchased my first alpacas several states away from me. When I brought them home, I was fortunate enough to have a mentor in a lady who owned a nearby farm that I had visited. The farm I purchased from gave me no after sale support and in fact, left the business just a few months after my purchase. (had I known they were liquidating, I probably would have not bought from them since it was my first purchase)
I am very grateful to the lady who answered all my questions in the beginning...looking back I must have seemed like a pest!! So I am a firm believer in paying it forward. Even if someone doesn't buy from me, I am willing to help to the best of my ability!!
Lisa
Circle C Alpacas
Rockmart, GA
-
Permalink Reply by Rick Horn - All American Alpacas on -
You'll find many people to be quite helpful, but I think you're missing a major point.
One breeder told you to call the person you bought from. In essence, that breeder is correct. The people you bought from should be your primary mentor.
Example: You call me and tell me that you have an alpaca that is always found laying with her head downhill and mouth hanging open. I'd say you have a problem.
If you called me with the same symptoms, and told me it was Armana, I'd say go about your business, that's just Armana.
Many of us that have been in the business for a while have also been taken advantage of. Someone comes out. We teach them things day after day. We help them with farm layout. Then they go buy a package from someone in another state that is well known for cashing the check and nothing else. They're surprised that we no longer have the desire to support them.
I've tried to impress a concept on new buyers for years. If I buy an alpaca, all I need is an alpaca. If a new buyer wants to buy an alpaca, they need an alpaca and the support that comes with it.
Sometimes the bargains are not bargains.
I bought stuff at Best Buy last year, and they stand behind it. Anything I bought at Circuit City, I'm on my own.
-
Permalink Reply by Suzie Radtke on
-
This dialog is great!!! I really appreciate all the different points of view. I also really hope no one takes offense to any of this discussion, it is so important to be able to really explore all sides of an issue.
Rick I think I understand what you are saying, and I appreciate your input.
I do know what it is like to be taken advantage of, I have breed very high quality warmblood jumping horses for years. I have had people do the same thing to me that you are talking about.
I still think that I will be the person that keeps sharing because I have found in the horse world at least, people pay 5 and 6 figures for high end performance horses all the time. And as a breeder you become known for how you treat others. People know that if they need help, they can call me and I will do what I can for them.
I have not always made the buck, I have even been known to give a horse or two away. The important thing is, I have always made friends and acquaintances along the way that have lasted for years.
Example: Say I helped out person (A) and they ended up buying from someone else, but later on person (A) might tell person (B) about me and I sell a horse to them. People remember how you treat them.
Getting back to the point I was trying to make was that, the problems I was having were very environmentally linked, I needed support from breeders that where familiar with sub-zero temperatures and the effects it has on alpacas in our area. Breeders that understood how to handle problems in our weather conditions.
Where I purchased my alpacas they rarely ever see freezing temperatures, so they had no clue how to help me with my problems.
I also did not purchase my alpacas for a good deal, I purchased them for their bloodlines and quality. They had blood lines that are not readily available in our area. I wanted certain foundation lines to start my herd.
I can tell you that as I expand my herd and look for new bloodlines to infuse into my animals. I will remember how I was treated and by whom and It will play a big part in where I find herdsires to breed to.
Thanks again for the feed back.
-
Permalink Reply by Kimberly Brummitt on -
Suzie,
I had the exact same thing happen to me when we started out. It put me off so much that when I subscribed to AN I put this on my page: We are committed not only to our customers, but to all other alpaca owners as well. In other words, we are happy to offer help, support and advice to anyone-not just people who have purchased alpacas from us. Feel free to call or email us anytime.
Since then I have built relationships with other farms in my area (and outside my area that I email) that have the same attitude I do: you help anyone in need if you can, when you can. Perfect example: On the way to a vet appointment, my van broke down at the gas station with an alpaca in the back. I was in a panic (of course), called a local farm and he hitched his trailer up and came and got us. Even took us to the vet. I'm not a "client" of his, just another alpaca farmer.
Now, who do you think I'll be doing business with in the future? Not the farm that told me they can't answer my questions because I didn't purchase alpacas from them.
-
Permalink Reply by Suzie Radtke on
-
Thanks for your input Kimberly it is so great to hear all sides of the topic. I am also glad to know that I am not the only person out there that feels the way I do.
-
Permalink Reply by Maryann Marsh on -
GOOD TOPIC!
This is why I started the social. Now some people say, "Maryann, you are on the phone all the time, do things for other alpaca farms that are not your clients, run the social site....your giving your services away for free!"
We had no vets in our area when we started. My vet now got into alpacas because of me and he is GREAT but over 1 1/2 hours away from me and we all know, you can lose one in that time so i learned. I have been to every seminar you can think of, read on line, called people, chat with people and am always learning.
I will ALWAYS help an alpaca person BUT it is not always because i am nice, want a sale, want a connection, need a friend, I DO IT FOR THE ANIMAL. I have helped people in the past that i truly do not like, or im just plain tired but i do it every time for the animal.
I agree with everyone that has posted thus far.
I agree with Rick....... I get so tired sometimes of people that spent large amounts of money at another farm but yet are calling me for advise. Call the farm you bought them from if you need advise on an animal you bought them from!
I agree with Kim.......I will never allow an animal to die or a client to lose all hope because i didnt take the time to help out in any way possible!
I agree with Nancy........there is ALWAYS something to learn and helping others makes our industry stronger.
And, I agree with you Suzie........This is why I created the social and when I am looking for an animal to buy for myself or a client, let me tell you, I hit the social first and those folks that are regulars and are here on a reg. basis. I know that these people truly care for their animals and are willing to help out the industry by taking the time to post knowledge, answer questions are just supporting what we do around here.
As one social member put it, "you can always fix the animal but you can never fix the farm." Remember that one on your next purchase!
-
Permalink Reply by Sandra Wallace on -
We're new to Alpaca Social, but not to the industry. We learned alpaca 101 through various means, including some ranches that weren't so supportive after all. We thank them for helping us learn the hard way how to operate an alpaca breeding business with better service. Ask us and we'll help you...not only for the animal's sake, but also for our regional alpaca owner's sake and our industry as a whole.
On the opposite side of the coin, we truely thank all those alpaca friends who've helped us throughout the years when asked. Whether coming to help during an emergency or sharing knowledge over the phone or via email or in a workshop or seminar.
We welcome new owners to our community, whether they have bought an animal from us or not. Eventually, we all interact, either via business or social relationships. Luckily, we
have a growing alpaca community here and there's room for all of us! We share resource information, work with helping our local vet improve education via Calpaca Vet Symposium each year, combine into small work groups on shearing days, interact via fiber or herd maintenance classes, share equipment such as ultrasound machine or shearing tables, stay on alert for any transport needs during emergency evacuations, offer breedings to good males at reasonable fees or trades, help with ranch duties and ranch sitting, consign items in our gift shop from owners who don't want to sell end product themselves, help each other when things go wrong and we need a shoulder....
So, I can't imagine why you were rebuffed, Suzie. Seems kinda short sighted on the part of your alpaca neighbor to me. However, there's often two sides to a story and sometimes we do and say things that put other people off without realizing it. Some alpaca ranching days are simply better than others and there may have been lots going on with your colleague behind the scenes that had nothing to do with you personally. One cardinal rule we try to follow, when we've felt slighted in any of our business dealings, is never to bad mouth a competitor...it's a sign of weakness. Plus, they've given you the gift of education you won't forget. Another truth is that one unhappy customer in business will say more about you much louder and longer than your happy ones. We need to take as much care of each other as we do our alpacas!
Sandra Wallace
Alpacas at Crossroads Ranch
Paso Robles, CA
-
Permalink Reply by Suzie Radtke on
-
Thanks Sandra,
I really appreciate your take on this topic. As for me I am not aware of any negative interactions with the breeder in question, since it was the first time we had spoken. But I may have been a little upset and scared, so I may have come off abrupt or something. I'm really not sure.
I totally agree with your number one cardinal rule. I think it is a very important one to follow. Thanks for the reminder.
I also agree that unhappy customers will say much more about you, and say it much louder than happy ones.. I have very purposely not given any hint of who the breeder was who rebuffed me, nor will I.
I have however found my local support system that seems to be willing to help me out when I have a questions, so I think I will stick with them. And I also now know who not to call, at least until I have a chance to meet them and see if I can discover some common ground on which to build an acquaintance. Some people don't like it when some stranger calls them out of the blue.
Thanks again for participating I am really learning a lot and becoming more aware of all the different sides of this topic.
© 2010 Created by Maryann Marsh.
