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Selling, or What to do with These High-Quality Males
Let's have a discussion about selling alpacas. And, in that let's talk about trading and especially what to do with the young males we all seem to be collecting.
A big issue, I think, is that there are a lot of very high quality males out there that are not being utilized. There is so much focus on breeding only with the "big name" guys that some of these others, many with excellent genetics and strong herdsire qualities, are rendered nearly of no value.
In the western states, where we are located, for example, there are descendents of some of the top bloodlines who are being castrated and sold as fiber males or kept and not used. And, we, like so many others, are running into the genetic roadblock where the males we have are related to our production females.
So, how about us talking over ideas and maybe some possible trades of alpacas or of breedings?
A big issue, I think, is that there are a lot of very high quality males out there that are not being utilized. There is so much focus on breeding only with the "big name" guys that some of these others, many with excellent genetics and strong herdsire qualities, are rendered nearly of no value.
In the western states, where we are located, for example, there are descendents of some of the top bloodlines who are being castrated and sold as fiber males or kept and not used. And, we, like so many others, are running into the genetic roadblock where the males we have are related to our production females.
So, how about us talking over ideas and maybe some possible trades of alpacas or of breedings?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Cynthia Hager (Cindy) on -
I belong to a small group of alpaca friends and because of the times and in an effort to help each other out we are trading breeding's ...seems to be a win win!! I feel very good about this as I was burnt by the breeding farm that I and and others bought our animals from. Some of us didn't even want the breeding's (too very nice males) from this farm...this wasn't just a money thing for me I wanted to make new friends and have something to do when my children left home and now I have lots to do...lol
Although money is what a business is about! or better put business is what money is about....but life is about enjoying it!
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Permalink Reply by Dena Kotka-Holtz on -
What Cynthia is doing sounds like a great idea! You can get new blood into your herd to breed your great males to and at the same time get exposure for your males bred to other farms. The American herd is getting better than when it started, thanks to dedicated breeders. The competetion is fierce. I wouldn't rely so much on the big name guys anymore unless they really have something to contribute to your herd. It takes time for the newer males to make a name for themselves. They have to prove themselves, not only in the show ring but in their offspring. I wouldn't want to breed one of my expensive females based on a few ribbons. I want to see what that male throws for offspring. In addition, I want to see years of histograms and weight for the fleece before I decide to breed my female to him. I do not agree with people who are castrating males before their time. It is ridiculous to castrate an animal that America has no clue about. We are still doing studies on these camel-lids to seperate the facts from the myths. Castration should only be done for health related reasons. Just because people raise alpacas for a few years doesn't make them an expert on their fleece. There is controversy in the show ring with AOBA decisions on what is good fleece or not. In addition, this country is new to the fleece production, otherwise, we would have a place to bring our fleece to and we clearly do not. I wouldn't jump the gun with the knife!
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Permalink Reply by Heidi Christensen on -
Hi Dena,
Although I agree with what you say in theory, I disagree with not gelding males at all unless they have health issues. Would you agree that an alpacas best fleece is the one when it is 18-24 months old? If he has a 30 micron fleece with a SD of 7 at 2 years, I certainly wouldn't breed him.
Most people believe gelding will help retain fineness. Lets say I am wanting a herd of fiber boys - not someone's culls who have that 30 micron fleece, but a herd of 50 or so males that are in the low 20's. And stay that way for at least 6 years - I am going to geld them. The reason I mention this is my mom owns 140 acres of wheat land in the Eastern part of the state I live in. I'm not a wheat farmer, but that land would be perfect for orchard grass and alfalfa and I have asked her to let me inherit that land (my sister is a city girl) and plan to put a herd of fiber boys out there in addition to my herd of girls. This is many years down the road, but I don't want a herd of 30 micron geldings.
Right now, I don't geld my boys anymore unless they are a real PIA, because I feel the money is better elsewhere. But I also have very tough criteria for a breeding male. And its not because I consider myself an alpaca expert. I do have 30 years in the dog world, and almost as many in the horse world, so I do know a little about genetics and breeding animals. The word I especially want to stay away from is kennel or barn blind - its hard to be objective when you have put all kinds of blood sweat and tears into the planning for that male, have seen the little darling hit the ground, and have watched him eagerly grow, dreaming of the day his offspring will hit the ground. Its not easy to see his faults - all you have to do is read all those write ups on males who have "perfect" conformation, "perfect" fiber, "perfect" everything. I can tell you from my years in the dog world, there is no such animal. If there were, we would all be out of a job.
Heidi Christensen
WingNut Farm
Graham WA
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Permalink Reply by Janet Tapply on -
I thought that the studies showed that gelding the males really does not help to hold the microns? Maybe it was just a person in passing talking... does anyone know for sure if gelding really does help to hold their fiber stats? I am under the impression that this is not true.
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Permalink Reply by Tracey Koehler on -
HI we have done some breeding trades this year. I have actually even offered a few free breedings just to get a couple of my Boy's proven. I figure if I can not use them right now offer them to someone that can. If they like the end product they may be back next year for another. It gets them out there and some cria on the ground. I have even worked out a deal that I am letting a friend use one of my Boy's to cover his girls and I get to keep one of the Cria.
You have to be creative right now, but there are ways to get them boy's proven. Sure the breeding fee would be nice, but once you have something to show it will be a benefit for the future.
I agree with you that you do not have to go with the BIG names to get great offspring. How else are we going to get the next Big names if we are not using our own Boy's? We may all have a few diamonds in our herds.
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Permalink Reply by Amy Lutz-Castellanos on -
This makes total sense to me. With 15+ males in my field that are now ready to breed, but whose father's are already serving as the main studs--trading is a great option. If anyone is interested, I would definitely be willing to trade info, stats and pictures.
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Permalink Reply by Martin Monroe on -
I would be willing to trade alpacas, let me know what you have
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Permalink Reply by Phyllis I Turner on -
I too, have a few males that would be good canidates for trading breedings. I have two spectacular huacaya males (one just settled his first 5 females this spring/summer. One of those was a free breeding from a drawing we did at a show and the others were a few of those that entered and did not win, we offered a half price off his introductory breeding fee for a really sweet deal for them. It's a win, win. This particular male is Callaway Jaxon (son of CPeruvian Axtion Jaxon), his dob is 4/27/2006 & ARI# 30478305. His half brother, Shady Creek's Montana Silver, is also a silver grey boy. His dob is 9/13/2007, ARI 30503489 and he should be ready to start breeding this fall or next spring. Both boys have the same dam, Thistledown's Shannon of Cairngorm who's ARI certificate "drips" with champion bloodlines. Her ARI # is 850923.
Hisograms for 2007 & 2008 are as follows: (we're still waiting for this year's results)
2007: Callaway Jaxon, AFD 19.0, SD 4.3, CV 22.6, %>30~2.7
2008: Callaway Jaxon, (hardly changed at all) AFD 19.5, SD 4.6, CV 23.6, %>30~3.3
2008: Shady Creek's Montana Silver, AFD 19.5, SD 5.0, CV 25.8, %>30~2.8
Contact me at phyllis@shadycreekfarm.net for more info and more photos.
Phyllis Turner
Shady Creek Farm
Latrhrop, MO
816.547.4984 - Attachments:
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Callaway Cropped.jpg, 878 KB -
Tanner 2008.jpg, 443 KB
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Permalink Reply by Sandra Phipps on -
Hi, I am new to Alpacas and have always wanted some, but didn't have the money to get any. We raise Reg. Missouri Fox Trotting horses and also the Reg Curly Haired MFTHBA horses. Curly Haired horses are hypo-allerenic to people allergic to horse hair.
So, I advertised I would trade some of my horses for Alpacas. Didn't really think I would get a response, but I did. About 3 wks ago I traded 3 Smooth Coat (sire was curly and dam was straight, 50% chance of Curls) Reg. MFTHBA geldings for 6 Alpacas. I got a really nice pattern Suri male, 3 Huacaya males, and 2 Huacuya females. I also purchased 2 Suri females for a nice price.
The owner of the Alpacas traded for horses for his daughter and grandson and grand daughter that love horses.
They have also picked out 3 mares and will be trading at end of October, don't know for sure what Alpacas I will be trading for yet, but this has been a win win for both parties.
I am still open for trades, as I still have 26 horses! Some are up for sale or trade, some aren't.
Anyway, I just smile everytime I go outside and I hear all the humming going on when they see me. I am now a Alpaca Lover!
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Permalink Reply by Paul on -
Ken and Lisa,
Trading: I totally agree. Deanna and I have a newborn male to our 5 year old Penny. Penny is a wonderful mom and very beautiful fiber. Her color is termed a dark bown, but she has some definite burgandy in there. Her cria is the result of a breeding with Daisey Hill Alpaca's Carbo. Carbo is a sone of Mr. President (deceased) whom is sough after in his blood line. I would love to trade Penny and "Pippen" for a like quality pair to allow some breeding in my pasture as we also have Penny's sister, Pale Moon here too.
As far as selling the males, I really don't think there is much future in it unless the fiber market takes off.
Paul
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Permalink Reply by sandy kunath/glacial ridge alpacas on -
we often trade males or 1/2 ownership in herdsire quality males in order to get new bloodlines for both farms, ..so far it has worked out very well for us.
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